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 First of all, apologies to nevermore999 for posting this from her LJ without asking first.

However, I really thought it was important enough to post.

Bill Willingham came in the panel, and ohmygod this really stupid guy bought up Steph, saying her death was poignant and he didn't think they should have bought her back because it was so important Batman kicked her to the curb and Leslie Thompkins (yes, he apparently liked THAT too) and Mom got all uncomfortable next to me...to Willingham's credit, he shut the guy down, saying the death was never his plan and he actually argued for Steph to live. Sattler said he wasn't around for it, and that the fans are really into Steph, and that he thinks it's important they redeemed Leslie Thompkins. Then Willingham had to ruin everything and say, and I swear to God this is a direct quote "I wanted to gun down those girls who kept asking about the (Steph's) memorial case."

My jaw just dropped open. I knew from interviews and shit that Willingham was an asshole- and I'm sorry, he is, for mocking people at panels, and mocking men for daring to cry over a comic book death- but that is just a creepy as fuck thing to say. I raised my hand and I wanted to say "Willingham, you're an asshole" but instead I just told him a) I hated Stephanie's death and b) You shouldn't want to gun people down for being passionate about a character.

Backpedaling time! No, see, those silly girls were just distracting from important issues at panels by asking the same question over and over again, andandand they just don't understanf how the comics industry works and then, I swear to god, he word for word said the "being hated is almost as good" quote. He DID. He and Sattler telled me that when fans hate a story, it's almost as good as if they love it, because at least they care.

So let me just lift the Internet veil for a minute. I am/was a journalist and I used to be a crime/court reporter. In my four years working for three different Canadian newspapers, I reported on a lot of incidents of violence against women. One of those was a four-part series on the high rate of domestic violence in a small community, for which I was nominated for a National Newspaper Award. So trust me when I say I have seen what violence against women does and how important a topic like this is to me.
So yeah, this comment disturbs me on many levels. It is truly an indefensible comment and the fact that it was made in a public venue with little discourse is disturbing. Serious props to nevermore999 for standing up to Willingham and pointing out his incredibly horrific and misogynistic comment. Young impressionable boys buy these comics and that writers who write them actually think these things and then say them outloud in a public venue is shocking to say the very least. 


( 37 comments — Leave a comment )
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Jun. 10th, 2010 06:44 pm (UTC)
Amen, sister.
Jun. 10th, 2010 06:50 pm (UTC)
This is why I don't read Bill Willingham comics.
Jun. 10th, 2010 06:51 pm (UTC)
Oh, gross. No you don't get to step back from a pronouncement like that, unless you are saying "darn it, that was completely wrong, I am completely sorry".

I'm glad you're spreading the word (or should I say, continuing to spread the word) and yeah, massive props to nevermore999! That kind of standing up is scary.
Jun. 10th, 2010 06:53 pm (UTC)
I seriously don't understand why DC thinks letting these guys go to conventions and JUST SAY THESE THINGS is a good idea. I mean really? REALLY? I know the only bad publicity is an obituary and all that, but REALLY?

1. This is especially creepy in light of, like, a whole part of the argument g-w people were making was also about how Steph died in this really sexualised, glorification of violence way.

2. I've seen a lot of people say some of this is just just desserts based on the unfortunate language some g-w.org-sided people used when talking about Willingham at the time, and on one level, yeah, a lot of unfortunate language was used in those discussions, but it wasn't AT A CONVENTION and they weren't the ones IN CHARGE OF THE SITUATION and it wasn't reinforced by an existing gender paradigm that you point out in your post.

Edited at 2010-06-10 07:00 pm (UTC)
Jun. 10th, 2010 07:04 pm (UTC)
There is a time and place for delicious dead baby comedy
...and where Willingham was standing wasn't it.
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - lencannon - Jun. 10th, 2010 07:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - skalja - Jun. 10th, 2010 08:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - magus_69 - Jun. 11th, 2010 02:59 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 10th, 2010 07:18 pm (UTC)
Between this and the fact he tries to make Fables out to be an Israel analogy, Willingham stopped being someone to listen to a long time ago.
Jun. 10th, 2010 07:25 pm (UTC)
Jun. 11th, 2010 02:49 am (UTC)
Bigby goes to the Adversary (aka Gepetto) and tells them that Fabletown is prepared to live and let live with the Empire, but that if the Empire tries to crush them, they will retaliate to such a degree that the Empire will be severely damaged, so why not leave Fabletown alone when it's really just more trouble than it's worth?

He explicitly compares Fabletown's situation to Israel's defensive strategy as a David that can mess up the larger Goliath of the hostile Arab governments surrounding it. Because Israel and Fabletown is just that badass. No mention is made of American support for Israel contributing heavily to the country's survival or Israel's seizure of Palestinian land and expulsion of the inhabitants.

Sorry, no idea what issue this was in, it's been a while since I've read it.
(no subject) - hiyami - Jun. 11th, 2010 06:24 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 10th, 2010 07:38 pm (UTC)
I'm glad to see nevermore999 called Willingham on his comment, and that he realized it was the wrong thing to say.

As to the belief that "If fans hate a story, at least they care," I think there's some truth to that, but it's not what people in growing storytelling media tell each other.
Jun. 10th, 2010 07:52 pm (UTC)
That is a point, although we hate to admit it. I think the Jeph Loeb penned Hulk stories are laughably bad, but I can't really hate them because... who cares about Red Hulk? Meanwhile Ultimatum filled me with this deep, existential rage because it literally destroyed a universe I either enjoyed, was currently enjoying, or saw future potential in.
(no subject) - xanykaos - Jun. 11th, 2010 02:05 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 10th, 2010 07:39 pm (UTC)
Will Billingham, first-rate asshole.
Jun. 10th, 2010 08:10 pm (UTC)
How about just saying, "That was a completely inappropriate response, and I apologize"? What an ass.

I really, really want to ban the "being hated is almost as good" defense from passing through a creator or editor's lips ever again. No, being hated is not "good" unless you are trying to drive away customers and kill your paycheck.

Jun. 10th, 2010 09:00 pm (UTC)
The ultimate (or Ultimate in Marvel's case) problem with the "Making people hate you is as good as making people love you" line is that eventually people tire of hating and just quit you altogether. Note to publisher: this means fewer sales. See Spider-Man post BND
Jun. 10th, 2010 09:51 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I'm still pissed over BND, but to me this just means that I now won't even let my goddaughter read old Spidey issues anymore and that I'm not even trying to get her those comics or toys that would be appropriate for her age. In fact, it means that as long as the current status quo holds, I'll purposely keep her away from anything Spider-Man related. And all that's because I care. If I didn't, it wouldn't matter if my sister did or did not let her have any of that kind of stuff.
(no subject) - crabby_lioness - Jun. 10th, 2010 10:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - liliaeth - Jun. 10th, 2010 11:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - skalja - Jun. 11th, 2010 02:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bj_l - Jun. 10th, 2010 10:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - liliaeth - Jun. 10th, 2010 11:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bj_l - Jun. 11th, 2010 03:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Jun. 11th, 2010 12:01 am (UTC)
Address for DC
You can send a letter to this address:

DC Comics

1700 Broadway

New York, NY 10019

(no subject) - skalja - Jun. 11th, 2010 02:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - skalja - Jun. 11th, 2010 03:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - aliasjack - Jun. 13th, 2010 03:12 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 11th, 2010 12:19 am (UTC)
Um...Bill..Love Fables but that was very innapropriate. It's like going to your family reunion in a short skirt and no panties. Your showing a part of yourself that alot of people find offensive.

No one wants to see that Bill. Close your legs or in this case your mouth.
Jun. 11th, 2010 06:09 am (UTC)
I keep hoping that the corporate bosses are going to give the comics people some media training, at the very least, but apparently this is not the case.

Is this funny said by Random Jane Fangirl on some stupid post on a forum? Maybe. Is it funny said by a professional representing his company at a major event, about his customers? Absolutely not.
Jun. 11th, 2010 08:30 am (UTC)
Frankly, I don't have an appropriate macro to properly express the fail here.

So, the only thing I can say is; DC I'm not going to suppourt or read any of your books anymore. The fact that my generation is growing up with shit like this that Marvel and DC are spewing is something that worries me, because in 10-15 years it would mean that shit like this will probably be even worse.
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